Qandil Observations: Part II

Today, I am posting the Part-2 of Mr. Murat Karayılan's interview with Filiz Koçali and Ramazan Pekgöz of Günlük daily. You can read the Part-1 here. Many thanks again to the heval who helped me with this piece. The original, in Turkish, can be read here.

Qandil Observations -2

'We completely agree with Yaşar Kemal'

[...]

We ask Karayılan about Yaşar Kemal's interviews at our paper [Günlük] and Radikal daily. "I read them last night." he says. He couldn't read it on time because of the Kongra Gel meeting. He states that Yaşar Kemal's words sincere and had good intentions. Karayılan invited the Turkish officials to think and reflect on the things Yaşar Kemal said in those interviews. He continues: "we completely agree with what's said there. Turkey has to understand this: what we say is exactly what any other person in Turkey who thinks realistically would say."

Then he brings up claim of several Turkish newspaper columnists on the Democratic Society Party (DTP) becoming like the PKK rather than PKK transforming into DTP and says "what we say is the same with everyone who sides with democracy and thinks realistically be it a shepherd in a village, a businessman in a city, a worker, intellectuals, or politicians."

'The most reasonable solution project'

A lot of factions in Turkey are talking about the road map that is to come out of İmralı island [from Öcalan] and make suggestions about its content. People wonder about [Öcalan's] recommendations related to the PKK which will be in the road map. We ask Karayılan about his predictions on the road map.

Karayılan's prediction is that the road map will be referencing the 1921 constitution, it will be on an axis that doesn't bring forth any ethnicity and that this road map would be the most reasonable and refined solution proposal from the Kurdish side. He states that saying 'this is Abdullah Öcalan's road map' and setting it aside would be very wrong and continues "This road map will be the pinnacle of peace endeavors developed since 1993, that's why it's important".

'I talked about pulling back in 99'

We mention that some factions expect to see 'the PKK laying down arms' in the road map and ask 'Will it be proposed that PKK pull back to outside Turkey?'

He reminds us the decision to pull outside Turkey in 1999. He himself announced to the PKK forces the decision to mocve them outside the borders of Turkey. He spoke to the forces for one hour. We ask him about his emotions during that talk. "If I put it honestly, I wasn't very hopeful. But our leader had asked. I was seeing it as a risky move but I was thinking it needed to be done. I remember it as a sad speech."

He tells about over 300 guerrillas were ambushed and killed while retreating to outside Turkey's borders. He talks about the traps, mass executions and massacres on the road [committed by the Turkish forces]. "But we still didn't change our mind and stood by our decision" he says.

He he asks a question and answers himself: "We didn't move for five years. Was any step taken? No! Was this period utilized? No! Now a lot people say that period was not utilized properly. We acted responsibly but the [Turkish] authorities of the time didn't act responsibly. The importance of our decision to retreat to outside Turkey's borders is being understood better today."

During those years, although they were outside Turkey's borders, in the South [Kurdistan], they were not left alone; the international forces along with Southern forces (he refers to Barzani and Talabani's forces) tried to surround and annihilate them. He states that after these developments they had to 'move back inside [Turkey]'. "Security and protecting lives was becoming a problem. Situations with danger to our own lives came up."

'I can't say retreat again'

We know that some factions are in the expectation of PKK's retreating outside the borders. This expectation doesn't just belong to the factions who say 'there can be no deals with terrorists' but also to some of those who see the PKK and İmralı as a reality and say that discussions with the PKK are necessary. We tell him about these expectations. He knows about it and says:

"This is not a scoreboard for a card game. No, why should we retreat? We stay where we are. Let the weapons be silent and we discuss the solution. Why should someone walk three months and come from Dersim? Let's discuss, talk, whatever is going to happen there, we solve the problem where it belongs. We don't see solution in this kind of requests. Who is going to guarantee that the same things will not be repeated again? [He is referring to retreating forces being ambushed and destroyed] I can't give such an order for a second time. Those who really want a solution, who want democracy shouldn't offer this."

'Mutual assurance and trust is a must'

Much pain has been lived. Now Prime Minister Erdoğan too, without distinguishing, says 'Let mothers not cry'. There are those who say that retreating outside the borders will assure those who believe that 'those at the mountains' have contribution to the pains lived?

He says that they value everyone who tries to contribute to the process and if they see sincerity for the solution they would certainly respond. But there are 'but's...

"Yes, we want to give assurances but in return we need assurance too. I am saying it candidly: we see such stand as move to weaken us, perhaps the initial phase of our annihilation. That's why I think those who want solution shouldn't defend such things. I know the state officials defend this. If mutual assurance and trust is to be mentioned, there is no trust in this [what's being asked of us], we don't trust this. Let me state clearly: don't force this on us because we don't trust [it]."

The issue of 'trust' a few days after our talks in Qandil was brought up after the meeting between DTP Chairman Ahmet Türk and Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdoğan. Erdoğan said "I believe we benefited from one another and for the future there will be positive steps based on trust". Apparently, 'trust' still remains to be an important issue before us.

'Öcalan is a force beyond the power of our administration'

What if such an offer [retreating beyond the borders] comes from İmralı, as some expect?

He says "let me be clear. Leader Apo's power is far beyond our administration's power."

But he says he doesn't think such an offer will come from İmralı: "Because he too knows that repeating such a thing for the second time will be difficult. Therefore not in that way but there may be something like a phased withdrawal, I can't know that. But he knows it too that retreating completely outside the borders will be difficult. That's why I don't expect something like that to be on the agenda right away."

If it doesn't take place on the agenda right away when do you think it could come up? How are the weapons going to get out of stage? Is it possible to reach a solution without having the weapons out of stage? We know that the public is discussing this and wants to know about it. He answers:

"It is possible to have a plan that will realize taking arms off the stage in phases. We are already discussing this at various levels. But let me say this: the road map will be presented to both sides, to the public. The road map will be presented to the state side and to us, the PKK. I don't think it will include measures that cannot be refused by either the state side or by us. That's why I said 'most reasonable'. But the state is already made some maneuvers which signal that the state doesn't care about the road map and it is trying to weaken the impact of the road map. We don't find this an approach conducive to solution."

Go to Part-1 or Part-3.